Curse

Kakumei · Feb 28, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollntider

They do have extra slots available, run down to Wal mart EB and get another account.

Exactly. If you're so willing to pay money, buy another account. The only downside to a new account is no pvp unlocks/no fame.

Which doesn't even matter, if you're like most people and have one pvp slot on your first account anyway. The people who are saying they want one fully leveled PvE character of each class--just buy another account.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM.

Andy_M · Mar 01, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Just another two slots ? Damn..

Any particular reason why I should buy another account ? I'll be buying Factions, I'm certainly not going to buy either chapter again. And why should I ? Buying another account along with Factions puts the price up there with the monthly fee games. And they have the content and depth to justify such an expenditure - GW certainly does not.

Tekish · Mar 01, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Exactly. If you're so willing to pay money, buy another account. The only downside to a new account is no pvp unlocks/no fame.

Which doesn't even matter, if you're like most people and have one pvp slot on your first account anyway. The people who are saying they want one fully leveled PvE character of each class--just buy another account.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM.

The problem is the downside you just mentioned. The new Rit/Assassin skills won't be on my original ranked/UAX PvP account. That's why, no matter what decision I make, I'm getting screwed to some degree. I'm forced to choose between taking a hit on character slots so I can say competitive with my guild, or forget about playing any builds that involve the Rit/Assassin and play PvE instead, while simultaneously hoping that I don't get kicked out of my guild for being useless in the process.

Gli · Mar 01, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollntider

Dude buy a second account
MMORPG monthly fees $15 x 12= 180 + cost of game 50 bucks = 230 for one years content.
GW= 39.99 or 49.99 depending on where you purchase. So far I have paid 80 for 2 accounts (only using 6 slots) the ones that are complaining saying they would gladly pay a monthly fee and money is no object are complaining they don't want to purchase extra account. They do have extra slots available, run down to Wal mart EB and get another account.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Exactly. If you're so willing to pay money, buy another account. The only downside to a new account is no pvp unlocks/no fame.

Which doesn't even matter, if you're like most people and have one pvp slot on your first account anyway. The people who are saying they want one fully leveled PvE character of each class--just buy another account.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM.

Actually, I had a second account for a week or so. I bought it dirt cheap out of a bargain bin. It didn't work for me, gave it to a friend. The thing is, I don't want 2 accounts. I don't want to have to switch accounts to switch characters, having to be on my guild's roster twice, having to appear on every friends list twice, having to go through the hassle of moving items between accounts. I don't want to turn my gaming time into a logistics exercise. Also, I don't have any use for 8 GW:P slots. I've been holding out for GW:F to put me on the footing I want to be. Now that I know that it won't do that, it's time to move on.

And most important of all, I don't want to submit myself to a situation I don't agree with. I'm stubborn that way. I have zero empathy for ANet's reasons to charge 2 slots for combining the games and leaving me unable to have a single non-gimped account even if I wanted to pay extra for it. I've enjoyed playing GW, but brand loyalty only goes so far; if it isn't a two-way street, I'll have no part in it. There's plenty of other games out there.

Thom · Mar 01, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Gli, the world does not revolve around you. Guild Wars does not revolve around you. I don't always agree with Anet, but your logic here is bordering on retarded. "I don't like A-net because I feel like I can't get enough access to the game, so I'll completely cut myself off from the game." If you really don't think access to factions is worth $50, then that's cool, but to say that access to factions is only worth my time if I have 4 more slots is just silly. That is like saying, that the first 200 hours of the game aren't worth 50 dollars, but if you let me play 300 hours I'll pay up. I am sure you can find something else to spend your time on if you NEED 4 more characters to make it worth your money.

I gave you my thoughts on why Anet have these limitation. There are other places with other business models and less restrictions. The restrictions that do exist here are largely there to continue developing a healthy GW community (which includes a financially healthy Anet). At some point we all want Guild Wars to be something a little different and my ideas may step on the toes of your ideas. "Boycotting" or "rage quitting" or whatever you are doing reflects more on the immaturity of the customer than the intentions of Anet.

"Bad evil A-net, they want to make money and provide a stable environment that I really don't like!"-Gli

Lady Lozza · Mar 01, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

To those who say they have already paid for their first four character slots and should get another four, I will say this:

Yes you have paid for your first four characters. But you have ONLY paid for them to journey around Tyria. Period. You therefore must ALSO pay for them to journey around Cantha.

Players who buy Factions as a stand-alone will be paying for four characters to journey around Cantha only.

Those who combine will be paying for there first four to journey around Cantha, and for two EXTRA characters to journey around Cantha AND Tyria. In this regard Anet has been generous by giving those of you who choose to combine accounts another two character slots so you can, if you choose, play the two new professions they have introduced.

Ensabah Nur · Mar 01, 2006, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Ok in the real world 4+4=8, ok that being said.

If Anet truly wanted to ensure brand loyalty and repeat customers they are failing. Companies that want repeat customers don't penalize previous customers. They give repeat customers extras,bonuses, incentives to come back and buy. The business model for Factions release that would have pretty much guaranteed that all Prophecies owners purchase Factions should have been to give them 9 character slots (1 for each primary profession and a PvP slot). Not only would this have pretty much cemented GWP owners to buy GWF it would give a major incentive for first timer GW Factions buyers to go back and buy Prophecies thereby increasing profit to Anet greatly, Instead they come out and gimp us yet again.

As we all know they have already setup the servers and personel to Run both GWP and GWF seperatly for those that don't wish to link. Therefore all the potential costs of maintaining a total of 8 characters has been calculated, but done for 2 seperate accounts. I know enough about programming to know very well that it would be cheaper to maintain 1 account instead of 2 so therefore linking will be less expensive to Anet. So why exactly can't we have 8 total character slots in 1 linked account? I'll tell you why, it's in hopes that people will buy more than 1 copy of Factions as many did with Prophecies. Wether you realize it or not yet, by purchasing multiple copies of each chapter you are very nearly paying the same price as a Monthly pay to play game.

Ok you may ask why does this subject interest me so much that I let it bother me. I'll tell you why. I have already bought 4 copies of Prophecies for my household(my account, my wifes account, and our 2 sons accounts) Have any of you given Anet $200? Now they want me to give them another $200 to upgrade(Face it, to GWP owners Factions is nothing but an expansion) our accounts and all they had to do was not gimp us on character slots and I would have pre ordered 4 copies.

Nessaja · Mar 01, 2006, 01:24 AM // 01:24

I would pay 100 Euro or Dollar for that matter if I had the OPTION to get 8 slots on ONE linked account. But that option simply isn't there.

Very dissapointed in ANet, sure their logic is fine, but there's also something like keeping your customers happy. And I do NOT believe that they will make less of a profit by having a few more character slots. They don't take that much data.

Lady Lozza · Mar 01, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Ok, I have a question for all those complaining about not getting 4 slots.

If Anet allowed you 8 slots, but made it so that four characters could travel Tyria only and four could travel Cantha only? Would you be happy with that?

MelechRic · Mar 01, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

^^

You get that if you don't link accounts. Two seperate worlds with 4 slots in each. The complaint is that if they're willing to offer that then why is it that when you link the accounts you lose 2 slots?

Lady Lozza · Mar 01, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

No acutally you get 2 advantages from this "linking" accounts:
1) combine storage,
2) unlocks

I ask this question because I think it is important to understand where they are coming from.

They say they have already paid for GW. I agree. They have already paid for four characters to have access to Tyria, all the skills, and items available there. They have NOT however paid for THOSE SAME four characters to have access to Cantha, and the skills and items available there.

When they buy Factions they will have a choice:
1) Combine - To give their CURRENT four characters access to Cantha, or
2) Stand-alone - To give four new characters access to Cantha.

Now if they say they are happy to have an 8 character account split in the manner I described, I will know that what they are after is simply convenience. If they say they want 8 characters with full access to Tyria and Cantha, I will say they are greedy.

Gli · Mar 01, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Gli, the world does not revolve around you. Guild Wars does not revolve around you. I don't always agree with Anet, but your logic here is bordering on retarded. "I don't like A-net because I feel like I can't get enough access to the game, so I'll completely cut myself off from the game." If you really don't think access to factions is worth $50, then that's cool, but to say that access to factions is only worth my time if I have 4 more slots is just silly. That is like saying, that the first 200 hours of the game aren't worth 50 dollars, but if you let me play 300 hours I'll pay up. I am sure you can find something else to spend your time on if you NEED 4 more characters to make it worth your money.

I gave you my thoughts on why Anet have these limitation. There are other places with other business models and less restrictions. The restrictions that do exist here are largely there to continue developing a healthy GW community (which includes a financially healthy Anet). At some point we all want Guild Wars to be something a little different and my ideas may step on the toes of your ideas. "Boycotting" or "rage quitting" or whatever you are doing reflects more on the immaturity of the customer than the intentions of Anet.

"Bad evil A-net, they want to make money and provide a stable environment that I really don't like!"-Gli

Comprehensive reading again proves to be a challenge. I haven't expressed any anger anywhere, nor have I stated any demands anywhere, nor have I implied any kind of boycott anywhere. I have posted my expectations, my intentions and my disappointment. (And perhaps some snide remarks here and there addressed to people whose posts rubbed me the wrong way.) You've posted a reply based on perceptions of me ungrounded in reality. "Boycotting" or "rage quitting"? Not at all. My reasons for quitting are simple: if I can't get what I want I'll go shop somewhere else. There's nothing more to it and nothing less. Why the attittude? Are you so obsessed with the game that you can't possibly accept the notion that someone can walk away from it without some kind of nervous breakdown?

Barinthus · Mar 01, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Frankly I'm a bit disappointed.

I was hoping to try out Ritualist and Assassin as well as Mesmer and Warrior since I have Monk, Ranger, Elementalist, and Necromancer on my current account.

From what I understand, in order to be able to play all 8 classes in GW: P and GW: F I'd need to buy one more GW:P and two GW:F?

If so, that's a lot of money.

FrogDevourer · Mar 01, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

If the number of character slots--of all things!--is going to decide yes or no whether you are going to purchase Factions, you should not be playing this game.

Just to be clear. Whining, complaining or just requesting more options, we will all buy chapter 2, including those who stupidly threaten to leave the game if they don't get what they want. That's pretty obvious. And for the records, the additional 2 slots from Chapter 2 are not the core of the problem. The initial 4 slots of Chapter 1 are the origin of the general grumpiness.

It can be an elusive problem, because players who don't need character slots can't understand how important they are in terms of flexibility and playstyle diversity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

The only downside to a new account is no pvp unlocks/no fame.

That alone would be a good reason. Not all players have fully unlocked all professions so unlocks are probably the most important issue. Casual players who didn't take the time to grind XP or faction point are stuck.

If they delete their PvE characters to make new ones, they have to start over with crappy ascalon skills, no XP, no access to endgame elites... If they use their last slot for a new primary (to try out something else, to round up a guild group with an unpopular profession, to try out the latest build of the month), they can't use PvP characters anymore. If they buy a brand new account, everything they'll unlock on this account will be lost for their main, and they won't be able to use precious skills they've spent a lot of time unlocking on their main account. Conclusion, their only solution is to grind mindnumbingly (skill points and gold, or faction points) on their main account, or to buy an ebay account, but certainly not to create any new character.

Personally, I can unlock skills somewhat fast with my 55 unlock machine, or with the latest PvP build of the month. But it would be a lot more exciting to try out new PvE playstyles with new primaries.

As for fame and ranks, it's obviously a critical matter for average PvPers whose friend/guild list is a bit empty. They are stuck on their main account where they can flash their rank emote to be invited in a R3/6 group, and they are stuck with one or two PvP slots (which means frequent rerolls). With more slots, they would at least have more PvP templates ready, and even a couple of PvE slots when they feel like bashing monsters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

3 PvE characters is more than enough PvE for a casual gamer.
...
There is a certain amount of diversity in the player base because of the decisions they made in starting a character.

Why 3? Why not 2 or 4 or 6? That is just an arbitrary opinion. Why would it be impossible for casual gamers to try out multiple professions and to keep their experimental characters? Experimenting with new professions doesn't mean they'll play each and every character throughout the entire game.

By limiting the number slots you can use, you do do not create diversity, you create an army of clones. Less slots mean less options because you have to make sacrifices. Less options mean that most players decide to play only popular templates instead of trying out new builds like in PvP. Just have a look at ebay accounts for sale, and you'll see a large majority of Warriors, Monks, Elementalists (the old trinity), and Necromancers (modern farming builds). Have a look at popular PuG and farming builds, the correlation is obvious. Give players more slots, and at least they might be tempted to create low level mesmers and have fun with this profession.

It's exactly the same problem that created runners. When you have beaten the game a few times, you don't want to waste your time being forced to play in shackles, you want to have options. You want to play your favourite part of the game but differently, and like you want. If I have unlocked every elite of my secondary mesmer, why can't I have the liberty to make a new primary mesmer and to play the missions I want with the skills I have earned once already? Am I supposed to believe that playing in Surmia with junk skills is a challenge? Am I supposed to believe that saving one slot for PvP and rerolling each time I want to change my equipment or profession is fun and justified? Why am I forced to delete PvE characters I used to enjoy to make room for PvP? Am I supposed to believe that sacrificing a character I have played for hundreds of hours is fun?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Limited storage tends to lubricate trade, since it forces people to make tough decisions. Casual players quickly understand that they can't really afford to keep a mule character so you pretty much sell 95% of the stuff you find.

That argument is totally irrelevant. 99% of the stuff you find is merchant fodder anyway. Storage does not force people to make decisions. The storage of casual players is full of junk so it has no impact on trade. The storage of farmers/traders is full of stackable items such as black dyes ectos and jewels. If they need more room, they can use a brand new account as mule, so ANet might as well offer more buyable slots. Lastly, the storage of the average experienced player is full of event items (pumpkin helmets, candy canes...), duplicate armors/weapons for rune/upgrade options. Limiting their storages results in trashing most items including unpopular greens. I wouldn't call that lubricating trade. On the contrary, reducing storage room means that only the best endgame equipment is worth trading. Farmers and hardcore players get the best end of the bargain, and casual players are left behind because their best weapon cannot match the worst tradable equipment. Everything goes to the merchant and newcomers are forced to sell mountains of junk to NPCs if they want to buy anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

You can overcome all of those shortcomings and more by purchasing another account. You can play the game 6 times and unlock all the skills from all classes on both accounts, have a PvP slot and a mule slot.
...
While transfering is annoying, it is doable. You can belong to multiple guilds...

Duplicate friend list, duplicate guild or two member slots taken (100 member cap), ask all your friends to add your second account on their friend list, double grind if you want to use your unlocks PvP on both accounts, no rank on second account, complex item transfers. How thrilling. But worse of all, what would be the difference between two separate accounts, and additional slots? Not being forced to unlock/farm everything again? Simply put, the lack of buyable slots is either a poor marketting trick to force people into more grinding, or a hypocritical moral speech (no hidden cost, yadda yadda), or just a designer's unwillingness to admit this limit is unfounded. Don't take me wrong, I love the game, and I'm convinced most of what ANet did is great. But that doesn't mean I'll swallow the unsound "8x50% fun < 6x100%".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

Why Anet doesn't link accounts: If the accounts are actually seperate and can be played simultaneously, then you are asking for abuse.

Of course, but the option that should be considered is not an exploitable account linking. It's an account merging (buy two accounts, merge them, you get one account, final, no going back) by adding all characters from a secondary account to your main (then your secondary account would be deleted). If account merging is still potentially exploitable, I just want the ability to get more account slots on the same account.

Why? To have more options on an account I like.

LaserLight · Mar 01, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Why do people continually feel there's a nutty character slot # request going forward?

Because there is. Twice the number of new slots as new professions.

Quote:

It's a norm, the more you get, the more you want. some ppl are hard to satisfy.period.

Thank God, someone who understands.

If we get four now, Anet will have little to no choice but to give four in the future for every single chapter. If it’s not fair now, when it’s not The Norm, then it will be doubly unfair when/if it is The Norm. People are funny that way; there’s no earthly reason we’d need, come Chapter 3, twelve slots for ten professions, or sixteen for twelve, or twenty for fourteen, but if they gave us those four slots now, that’s exactly what we would have to end up with. And account sharing would be rampant, Anet would lose shitloads of money because people end up with twice as many slots as primary professions and the whole thing dies. Slippery slope or dire prediction of narrowly-averted disaster? You decide.

As for people desiring to pay money for additional slots…HELL NO!! Lets call it fifteen bucks for a two-slot key. Simple enough, right? WRONG. Given the nature of some people’s GW mentality, we’d end up with guys who’ve spent, two, three hundred dollars on two-slot keys, who have forty or fifty slots, have hoarded gold/items into the billions. They can afford to say “I’ll give you ten million gold” for absolutely everything they could possibly want, they can buy Fissure armor for them and everyone in their Guild, GW’s economy tanks out, and most of us are reduced to what we find on the ground and what we can get from collectors. Pack rats may be paying customers as well, but they shouldn’t be the ones who dictate what I can and can’t afford in this game even to the extent they already do, let alone into the Realms of Nucking Futs. No WAY. Only way the extra slot thing would work – at all – is if the keys didn’t stack.

And if they didn’t, the people in this thread Red Engine Go-ing about slots would continue to Red Engine Go about slots and nothing would be solved because people just want unlimited slots and that’s that.

Me? Six slots is fine. Who needs forty or fifty slots, ninety percent of which are just item/gold mules. Hell, who needs eight slots, half of which would be glorified item/gold mules. As has been stated, anyone with enough time to fully play all eight primary professions the way one’s supposed to play them and PvP as well, thus requiring the extra slot, and grind all that mess all the way to UAX deserves to pay for the disproportionate amount of bandwidth they’re eating. If you’re playing more Guild Wars than three average players combined, feel lucky you can do it for the cost of two average Guild Wars players combined.

*EDIT* Missed a page (somehow), so I have to do more talking. Only on one subject though. And that is this:

Quote:

Of course, but the option that should be considered is not an exploitable account linking. It's an account merging (buy two accounts, merge them, you get one account, final, no going back) by adding all characters from a secondary account to your main (then your secondary account would be deleted). If account merging is still potentially exploitable, I just want the ability to get more account slots on the same account.

This is the exact same reasoning as the people wanting to buy slot keys. If you can merge two accounts, why not ten or two hundred? Again, the pack rats will have virtually unlimited storage and Guild Wars’ economy will shrivel up and die. No way in hell would I endorse that. Hell, they do it and I’ll start seeking out the collector’s maps, because nobody that doesn’t have eight hundred slots and the gold and items to fill them will be able to afford jack. Those items going for 150K or so total now? Give players that kind of storage and they’ll go for 1.5M As in one-point-five mega-gold. Or one-point-five million gold pieces. And who the hell wants to pay that for anything?

rollntider · Mar 01, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Actually, I had a second account for a week or so. I bought it dirt cheap out of a bargain bin. It didn't work for me, gave it to a friend. The thing is, I don't want 2 accounts. I don't want to have to switch accounts to switch characters, having to be on my guild's roster twice, having to appear on every friends list twice, having to go through the hassle of moving items between accounts. I don't want to turn my gaming time into a logistics exercise. Also, I don't have any use for 8 GW:P slots. I've been holding out for GW:F to put me on the footing I want to be. Now that I know that it won't do that, it's time to move on.

And most important of all, I don't want to submit myself to a situation I don't agree with. I'm stubborn that way. I have zero empathy for ANet's reasons to charge 2 slots for combining the games and leaving me unable to have a single non-gimped account even if I wanted to pay extra for it. I've enjoyed playing GW, but brand loyalty only goes so far; if it isn't a two-way street, I'll have no part in it. There's plenty of other games out there.

Well sorry to see you be that way, but thats less server space your taking up.
See ya...

SnipiousMax · Mar 01, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

I would have played (and payed full price) with the guarantee of just one extra skill slot. So I'm twice as excited. I've already picked out which characters I'm gonna play.

Katari · Mar 01, 2006, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Because there is. Twice the number of new slots as new professions.

The hope was that A.Net would fix one of the most signifigant problems with Guild Wars.

Quote:

It's a norm, the more you get, the more you want. some ppl are hard to satisfy.period.

There is a difference between wanting moremoremoremoremore and wanting enough. People can be rational, no need to invent a slipery slope that dosn't nessacarly exist. Heck, most people don't even care if they have to *pay* for the slots. They just think two accounts is a bad idea.

Quote:

Me? Six slots is fine. Who needs forty or fifty slots, ninety percent of which are just item/gold mules. Hell, who needs eight slots, half of which would be glorified item/gold mules. As has been stated, anyone with enough time to fully play all eight primary professions the way one’s supposed to play them and PvP as well, thus requiring the extra slot, and grind all that mess all the way to UAX deserves to pay for the disproportionate amount of bandwidth they’re eating. If you’re playing more Guild Wars than three average players combined, feel lucky you can do it for the cost of two average Guild Wars players combined.

So, did you read the post preceding yours at all? FrogDevourer said it very clearly. Myself, I've played twelve chars through asscension, never having been run to DF, and about half of those beat the game. That is is with one account.

Eternal Equinox · Mar 01, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Well didn't this thread fall to the depths of gold hoarders and slot whining.

Six slots, i'm content. I could use a material stash or something though.

Rok · Mar 01, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Omg, lmfao.

Laserlights over-the-top rant just destroys itself.

We don't want 50 slots. Besides, what will prevent your hypothetical economy destroyer from just buying more accounts and doing the same thing?

FrogDevourer's post was excellent.